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RE: [nmlci] Answer: Ghost Bike Gone, New Mexico law possibly violated?



Might be good to find out. There might be a way to negotiate this so the bikes stay up and everyone is reasonably happy.

Khal "advice from the peanut gallery" Spencer


-----Original message-----
From: "Martha Hardman" MH at FBDLAW dot com
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:56:00 -0700
To: blacktiebicyclist at yahoo dot com
Subject: RE: [nmlci] Answer: Ghost Bike Gone, New Mexico law possibly  violated?

> Rather than wating until construction is finished, why doesn't one of us
> contact the Mayor's office and see what the story is--since it was the
> Mayor's office that ordered it removed.
> 
> ________________________________
> 
> From: Black Tie Bicyclist [mailto:blacktiebicyclist at yahoo dot com] 
> Sent: Monday, March 16, 2009 10:39 AM
> To: Johnson-Grover; bikeabq at yahoogroups dot com; Diane Albert;
> spencerk at lanl dot gov; Khalil Spencer; lorimeszaros at yahoo dot com
> Cc: corey at vintagesherpa dot com; tomp dot trowbridge at state dot nm dot us;
> nmlci at woozle dot org
> Subject: RE: [nmlci] Answer: Ghost Bike Gone, New Mexico law possibly
> violated?
> 
> 
> Actually without a placard they are quite see through so I don't see how
> they obstruct the view. 
>  
> Section C wouldn't apply to the Sekreta Ghostbike that was in the wide
> seperated median chained to the Bike Crossing Sign's post. It neather
> damaged nor obsrtucted the view, you can see the workers arms beyond the
> Ghostbike in the Journal Photo.
>  
> Check out http://www.ghostbikes.org/
>  
>  
> 
> --- On Mon, 3/16/09, Lori Meszaros <lorimeszaros at yahoo dot com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 	From: Lori Meszaros <lorimeszaros at yahoo dot com>
> 	Subject: RE: [nmlci] Answer: Ghost Bike Gone, New Mexico law
> possibly violated?
> 	To: "Johnson-Grover" <johnsongrover at msn dot com>, "Craig Degenhardt"
> <blacktiebicyclist at yahoo dot com>, bikeabq at yahoogroups dot com, "Diane Albert"
> <dalbert at cybermesa dot com>, spencerk at lanl dot gov, "Khalil Spencer"
> <khalil at losalamos dot com>
> 	Cc: corey at vintagesherpa dot com, tomp dot trowbridge at state dot nm dot us,
> nmlci at woozle dot org
> 	Date: Monday, March 16, 2009, 8:25 AM
> 	
> 	
> I love the idea of the ghost bike and I am not opposed to them, I think
> they make a great statement, but they are pretty big and I can see why
> people may say they obstruct view.  Maybe we could come up with a cross
> with a bike on it?  
> Just a thought, Lori M
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> --- On Sun, 3/15/09, Khalil Spencer <khalil at losalamos dot com> wrote:
> 
> 
> 	From: Khalil Spencer <khalil at losalamos dot com>
> 	Subject: RE: [nmlci] Answer: Ghost Bike Gone, New Mexico law
> possibly violated?
> 	To: "Johnson-Grover" <johnsongrover at msn dot com>, "Craig Degenhardt"
> <blacktiebicyclist at yahoo dot com>, bikeabq at yahoogroups dot com, "Diane Albert"
> <dalbert at cybermesa dot com>, spencerk at lanl dot gov
> 	Cc: corey at vintagesherpa dot com, tomp dot trowbridge at state dot nm dot us,
> nmlci at woozle dot org
> 	Date: Sunday, March 15, 2009, 3:34 PM
> 	
> 	
> 	I've seen quite a variation in memorials up this way. Never
> heard there was a standard allowable design, so why not include a
> bicycle?
> 	
> 	There is one legal loophole. See section C.
> 	
> 	30-15-7. Desecration of roadside memorials; penalty.
> <http://www.conwaygreene.com/nmsu/lpext.dll?f=FifLink&t=document-fram> e.h
> tm&l=query&iid=11524dcf.61c67343.0.0&q=%5BGroup%20%2730-15-7%27%5D>>  
> 	
> 	A.    A person shall not knowingly or willfully deface or
> destroy, in whole or in part, a descanso, also known as a memorial,
> placed alongside a public road right of way to memorialize the death of
> one or more persons.  
> 	
> 	B.    A person who violates the provisions of Subsection A of
> this section is:  
> 	
> 	(1)    for a first offense, guilty of a petty misdemeanor and
> upon conviction shall be sentenced pursuant to the provisions of Section
> 31-19-1
> <http://www.conwaygreene.com/nmsu/lpext.dll?f=FifLink&t=document-fram> e.h
> tm&l=query&iid=11524dcf.61c67343.0.0&q=%5BGroup%20%2731-19-1%27%5D>> 
> NMSA 1978; and  
> 	
> 	(2)    for a second and subsequent offense, guilty of a
> misdemeanor and upon conviction shall be sentenced pursuant to the
> provisions of Section 31-19-1
> <http://www.conwaygreene.com/nmsu/lpext.dll?f=FifLink&t=document-fram> e.h
> tm&l=query&iid=11524dcf.61c67343.0.0&q=%5BGroup%20%2731-19-1%27%5D>> 
> NMSA 1978.  
> 	
> 	C.    The provisions of this section shall not apply to law
> enforcement officials or other employees of the state or a political
> subdivision of the state who in the course of the lawful discharge of
> their duties move or remove a descanso that obstructs or damages any
> public road in this state or to an owner of private property upon which
> a descanso is located. 
> 	
> 	Seems to me the government can only take it down if it is
> obstructing something. Santa Fe has argued that you cannot obstruct the
> center median of a road as it obstructs vision, or something like that.
> Put up a new memorial with flowers and a smaller ghost bike or perhaps
> just the bicycle wheels, and make sure it doesn't obstruct the public
> road in any way. Then file the lawsuit if it gets taken down. 
> 	
> 	At 09:06 AM 3/15/2009, Johnson-Grover wrote:
> 	
> 
> 		Ummmmm
> 		
> 		
> 		
> 		30-15-7. Desecration of roadside memorials; penalty.
> <http://www.conwaygreene.com/nmsu/lpext.dll?f=FifLink&t=document-fram> e.h
> tm&l=query&iid=11524dcf.61c67343.0.0&q=%5BGroup%20%2730-15-7%27%5D>>  
> 		
> 		I think there's an issue here.  If the city tampers with
> the bike then how can they justify leaving all the other hundreds of
> descansos around town?  I'm sure this is not the first time this issue
> has come up...if anybody knows anybody about what challenges have
> occurred in the past, now would be a time to think about getting
> involved...
> 		
> 		Is this not a direct test of the Lemon or Establishment
> clause Diane???
> 		
> 		
> ________________________________
> 
> 		Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:25:09 -0700
> 		From: blacktiebicyclist at yahoo dot com
> 		Subject: [nmlci] Answer: Ghost Bike Gone
> 		To: bikeabq at yahoogroups dot com
> 		CC: corey at vintagesherpa dot com;
> tomp dot trowbridge at state dot nm dot us; nmlci at woozle dot org
> 		
> 		FYI
> 		Lets wait till constuction is over to see what happens.
> 		
> 		--- On Sat, 3/14/09, Silda Mason <sirqmason at yahoo dot com>
> wrote:
> 		
> 
> 			From: Silda Mason <sirqmason at yahoo dot com>
> 			
> 			Subject: Re: [bikeabq] Ghost Bike Gone
> 			
> 			To: blacktiebicyclist at yahoo dot com
> 			
> 			Cc: "'Board BikeABQ'" <board at bikeabq dot org>
> 			
> 			Date: Saturday, March 14, 2009, 5:27 PM
> 			
> 			
> 			I was on a bike ride with the Touring Society
> this morning around 10am and we went by there.  A man was cutting the
> lock.  I asked him who had ordered it removed, and he said Jay Evans (?)
> by order from the Mayor had ordered him to remove it.  Are they really
> going to put a traffic light there?
> 			
> 			Silda
> 			
> 			
> 			--- On Sat, 3/14/09, Black Tie Bicyclist
> <blacktiebicyclist at yahoo dot com> wrote:
> 			
> 
> 				From: Black Tie Bicyclist
> <blacktiebicyclist at yahoo dot com>
> 				
> 				Subject: Re: [bikeabq] Ghost Bike Gone
> 				
> 				To: bikeabq at yahoogroups dot com, "Hal"
> <halfencer at aol dot com>
> 				
> 				Date: Saturday, March 14, 2009, 4:42 PM
> 				
> 				
> 				It was there at 9:30 last night
> 				
> 				
> 				--- On Sat, 3/14/09, Hal <halfencer at aol dot 
> com> wrote:
> 				
> 
> 				From: Hal <halfencer at aol dot  com>
> 				
> 				Subject: [bikeabq] Ghost Bike Gone
> 				
> 				To: bikeabq at yahoogroups .com
> 				
> 				Date: Saturday, March 14, 2009, 3:59 PM
> 				
> 				
> 				Either it's gone or invisible but I
> couldn't see it today when I went by Commanche and Paseo del Nordeste
> bike trail. The city is constructing something at the site so workers
> might have removed it.
> 				
> 				
> 
> 
> 				__._,_.___
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> 
> 	Khalil J. Spencer
> 	1799 Camino Uva
> 	Los Alamos, NM 87544
> 	505-661-8141
> 	LAB Cycling Instructor #1173
> 	http://www.labikes.blogspot.com/
> 	
> 
> 
> 
>